Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Richard: Hey, welcome to the Humanizing Work show. Richard here. In past episodes, we've mentioned that my wife and I moved to Western Colorado earlier this year with a vision for a regenerative farm and winery. I was drawn to this project in large part because I saw deep connections between stewarding healthy organizational systems, which we help people do at Humanizing Work, and stewarding healthy agricultural systems.
[00:00:28] What I didn't expect was just how explicit a lot of those connections would be. For example, I was at a regenerative wine growing workshop in April of 24 at Piscinas Ranch in California. And I found myself in a room of experienced vineyard managers and winemakers discussing Kenevan, of all things. The same complexity framework we regularly use with our organizational clients and talk about on this podcast.
[00:00:52] Piscinas was where I met today's guest, Steven Thompson of Analemma Wines in Oregon, and I was delighted to learn that he'd been applying [00:01:00] many of the same ideas about leadership, systems thinking, and innovation that we use with our clients. Whether you're interested in wine or not, I think you'll find it fascinating to hear how these Organizational and leadership principles show up in the context of building a thriving vineyard ecosystem and wine business.
[00:01:15] There's always something to learn from people applying familiar ideas in unique contexts. And if you are into wine, by the way, definitely seek out Enolaima's wines where you can. I recently found a bottle here in Colorado and it was fantastic. So Steven Thompson, welcome to the Humanizing Workshop.
[00:01:32] Steven: Uh, thank you, Richard.
[00:01:33] Yeah, really happy to be here.
[00:01:36] Richard: As we get started, can, can you paint a brief picture for us? Where in the world is Analemma? What's it like? What are you all doing there?
[00:01:43] Steven: Yeah, well, uh, we are in North Central Oregon, uh, right along the Columbia River. So that's the border between Washington and Oregon. It's a beautiful place to live and work.
[00:01:55] It's just on the east sides of the Cascades. Uh, the Cascade Mountains, [00:02:00] so it's a little bit drier and warmer than what a lot of people associate with Oregon. Uh, and we moved here purposely for, uh, wine growing, regenerative farm creation. in a really unique place. Uh, there's four beautiful seasons here. Uh, the summers get warm enough to ripen vinifera, uh, the spidus vinifera, the wine grapes, and we can have three to four feet of snow on the ground in the winter, so it's, uh, it's a really diverse area, um, both climatically, like I was speaking, and also geologically.
[00:02:41] Uh, this is the area of the Missoula floods. Uh, I mentioned the Columbia river. It's, it has created a gorge here, which is a national scenic area. So it's, it's strikingly beautiful on top of everything else.
[00:02:57] Richard: Other than grapes, what are you growing or raising there? [00:03:00]
[00:03:00] Steven: Yeah. Uh, sweet cherries. Um, this, the, the area, actually the farm that we purchased back in 2011 was planted all as a sweet cherry orchard.
[00:03:12] And like everything else, it ages with time and needs to be cultivated. Um, redesign and laid out for modern agriculture and we kind of came into it at the end of its life. It was about 45 years old. And so we've transitioned a lot of those trees into vineyards, uh, and we kept about, um, Oh, we have about five acres now and we have a lot of different pastures.
[00:03:41] We raise cows, have a big veggie garden and, uh, just a lot of diverse plantings.
[00:03:47] Richard: I really want to geek out about all the agriculture and wine stuff, but this is a leadership and product development podcast. So we're going to focus in on the, the human and business side of this. So what's challenging [00:04:00] about managing a vineyard and winery business?
[00:04:04] Steven: Yeah, I, I would say I'm most challenged by, um, the distinct skill sets that are required. So, across our, uh, wine growing operation, we have farm work, uh, so agricultural focused. Then, uh, here in the cellar, producing the wine is pretty complex and requires a lot of, uh, skilled knowledge just in terms of laboratory and chemistry and things and sensorial analysis.
[00:04:36] And then we have to sell everything. So that includes marketing. I guessed hospitality and just kind of like front of house sales and though it's a competitive industry as well. And so all three of those require really skilled expertise. Um, and they don't really [00:05:00] overlap with one another, so I'm kind of setting it up because my challenge a little bit is to drop into each of those domains at any given day at the depth and level that is demanded.
[00:05:16] And to achieve kind of the excellence and coherency that we're trying to do, um, nature and farming is, is very much out of your control. You realize that, so it's, it's kind of working with the, um, with the climate and what, what's happening there and in the cellar, there's a lot of things that can go wrong.
[00:05:42] And so it really requires an astute level of, um, focus and attention. And the, the administrative and sales side is pretty complex because we're, uh, we might be farming in, let's, for example, [00:06:00] 2024, but then in the cellar, we've got wines from 22 and 23, and then we might be selling wines from like our 2020, 2021 and 22.
[00:06:11] So it's across multiple years that. We have to maintain a focus
[00:06:17] Richard: and how, how big a team do you have working with you on the different parts of this,
[00:06:23] Steven: we, we have, we employ about nine individuals and, uh, some of those are kind of seasonal, um, with sales. Our hospitality season mainly runs from March through October.
[00:06:38] We're dependent a little bit on the outdoor and the shoulder seasons here can get. a little cool and rainy. So, um, uh, that is, that's an area where you have part time work is, is part of it. Uh, and then we have about four people full time [00:07:00] year round.
[00:07:01] Richard: Okay. Yeah. So you've got people doing a lot of different things at the same time, different specialties, some of them temporary, some of them full time.
[00:07:12] How do you keep everybody aligned around the same vision, especially when it's not the standard thing in the wine industry, where there's that regenerative component. And I know you're doing biodynamic practices in the vineyard. There's a lot of things that are not common. How do you. with a group like that, especially temporary workers?
[00:07:33] Steven: That's an excellent question. That's really great. Um, so we're, we're a big proponent of shared purpose and we try to articulate our Our purpose in terms of regenerative farming, so building soil health and disease and, uh, pest resistant vines and trees, and just a healthy microbiome. That thread of [00:08:00] fostering life and building community comes through in the wines and in the sales as well.
[00:08:07] So each of the team members. Can relate to our shared purpose and it also grows, goes cross culturally. So folks from Mexico that are working in the fields have grown up in agriculture. They love agriculture and they really appreciate it. When, when you give it the respect that it's due in terms of organic or biodynamic farming.
[00:08:31] So they really pick up on that purpose and. In the cellar and the cellar team, they're mainly focused on, you know, the wine and they're saturated in the world of wine and how complex and unique it is from all over the world, and they, they study the regions and the great producers, and they realize that, uh, by, by doing what we're doing, you know, Anna Lima [00:09:00] is, is one of 29.
[00:09:02] wineries out of 11, 000 wineries in the U S that are Demeter certified for our listeners
[00:09:09] Richard: who don't know what is Demeter certified mean?
[00:09:12] Steven: Oh yeah. Thank you. Uh, Demeter is an organization that is responsible for, for certifying The biodynamics. One of our values that we have is to foster life. And biodynamics is literally translated into life force.
[00:09:31] Bio being life and dynamic is force. So we foster life on the farm and in the vineyard and in the orchard rather than trying to kill or control pests and diseases. So we try to bring the ecosystem into balance by fostering. Resiliency through diversity. So that's why diverse farms are, are, um, are really good.
[00:09:59] And [00:10:00] we do not focus on monoculture. Uh, so that diversity is part of it. And then. A really strong tenet of biodynamics is a closed loop system. So anything that the farm needs, we try to generate it from within the farm. Uh, just a brief example on that is our fertility for the whole farm is generated from the manure from the cows that we maintain on the farm.
[00:10:27] So we don't bring in any inputs for soil, uh, health and and quality. It's all done through compost and manure from the cows. So biodynamics is a practice in how we farm, but it needs a certifying body and that is Demeter, which happens to be the, the Greek goddess of harvest. So it's, it's not just wineries and vineyards that are certified.
[00:10:55] It's a lot of local farms, small farms throughout the U. S. and the [00:11:00] world. And so the team and the seller realizes how special the wines are and how unique they are. In terms of the broader world of wine, and so they're very focused on Maintaining the context that's conducive to, to raise these wines well.
[00:11:17] Richard: So for someone who's, you know, if one of our listeners has gone on a wine tour at some point to a conventional vineyard, uh, how does Analemma look and feel different because you're farming the way you are?
[00:11:30] Steven: That's great. Um, I, I think, I think a lot of folks can relate to the aesthetic quality of vineyards, you know, they just look nice, they're all uniform, and, um, they're appealing to the eye, but some of that linearity is not so healthy, uh, and, and so our vineyard, I think you would see, well, you certainly wouldn't [00:12:00] see dead grass, you know, that has been sprayed.
[00:12:03] Under, underneath the vine, it would have a low growing, flowering contribution or different types of grasses. The whole place is quite vibrant and healthy, so it's even a deeper level of green because it's kind of photosynthesizing at a level above normal. So you get deeper colors, uh, across all the trees and vines.
[00:12:26] One would really notice if one were to walk out in the vineyard. So instead of just driving by and looking, but you walk out there, uh, you'll feel the soft ground underfoot, so it's not hard. You would smell the aromas from the myriad flowering bushes that we have planted all around, the lavender and roses and forsythia and such.
[00:12:51] You would certainly see a lot more insects and pollinators that are flying around. I think those would be good indicators that you would be on a different place. [00:13:00]
[00:13:00] Richard: Yeah, Piscinas was my first experience with this kind of vineyard, and just walking in the rows and experiencing the life there. Where it made all the conventional vineyards I've been in, even a lot of organic vineyards that are still pretty heavy on the sprays and the mowing and everything felt like grape factories.
[00:13:21] Yeah. And the kind of vineyard like you've created feels like a complete ecosystem and you can feel that I'm in the middle of a, uh, a living thing and not in a factory.
[00:13:33] Steven: Yeah. Which, which is a really beautiful feeling. Uh, because again, when, when you're in the profession of farming, you want to enjoy where you are.
[00:13:46] You, you want to honor the life that's there. You know, I think sometimes spraying herbicide or synthetic pesticides and things could be considered. Uh, you know, and at its [00:14:00] best, it kind of competitive with life, but at its worst, it's kind of combative with life. You know, you're trying to suppress what's there and we biodynamics just really, uh, fosters life and we look for diversity.
[00:14:15] So we grow a lot of herbs. Uh, in the garden and then make herbal teas and spray those on the vines. And what we've found are these teas that are made from herbs have a better bioavailability. So the vine soaks up that nutrient or, uh, the constituent that we are brewing the tea for. So, um, it works so much more effectively.
[00:14:44] And once you start working in residence with these natural rhythms. It becomes a lot easier and you're not fighting anything.
[00:14:54] Richard: Yeah, I want to bring it back around to the, the shared purpose on the team. So if, if I were to come [00:15:00] in as a new member of your hospitality team and I'm going to work in the tasting room and there's lots to do, how do you connect me with what's going on out in the vineyard?
[00:15:10] And then how am I going to make that show up for a guest who walks in and knows nothing about this?
[00:15:16] Steven: Awesome. Yeah, that's a great question. Uh, we do a really, thorough training and education, which we value education a lot, both education to guests that come in, but also our team. We have these really great experiences that we call exploratory field tastings, where one of our team members or myself will.
[00:15:37] Put a couple of bottles of wine in a little cooler bag and put it over the shoulder and go walk out in the field. And he can taste the wines out in the vineyards from which they're made. And that's a really great experience. So I mentioned this because we do this repeatedly with the team throughout the year.
[00:15:57] So they can get out and they see, [00:16:00] okay, this is what's, this is what's happening in spring, and we talk about the pruning of the grapevine, the sap flow, and how that's connected to the lunar cycle, uh, bud break and then the flowering. And then we do it again in the summertime when the lavender is full bloom and you get a real sense of all the pollinating insects that are there.
[00:16:20] And. A lot of our team members will collaborate with Harvest as well. So we love that integration of, uh, getting people out there and understanding what we do. I am prevalent throughout all aspects of, of our business. And so I'm always around to answer questions for guests or team members. I mentioned that we have a big veggie garden and so, uh, our team participates in that, you know, whether it's seeding or, or weeding or harvesting and they're very.
[00:16:57] Aware of the care and [00:17:00] attention that we give to the vineyard, because we're also giving them a lot of care and attention. And then that translates to the guests, uh, so thoroughly where a, a rare winery where the guests that'll come in could ask most any question about the wine and it'll be answered, you know, most likely by the person that's helping them and giving their tasting.
[00:17:24] If not, that it would just be a second. Colleague that's right behind them that could answer it. So the breadth and depth of training and study for our team members is really important and it pays off.
[00:17:37] Richard: And is not typical of the industry.
[00:17:39] Steven: Just this fall, um, we had several guests come in like back to back on a couple of different weekends and actually ask what kind of seeds that we're planting in our cover cropping.
[00:17:52] You know, and then what kind of teas do we spray in the biodynamics? And our team answered them without any problem. And, [00:18:00] and I love it that the guests have that level of interest and education and understanding, because I know that they're coming here in search of products in our, in our case, wine, you know, that is regeneratively grown, that is respectful and is not externalizing a lot of harm.
[00:18:20] Richard: In your, your farm, you've built this complete ecosystem rather than just a simple monoculture of grapes. And you've built this healthy, regenerative, diverse dynamics to it. What connections do you see between that approach in the vineyard and how you manage the human side of the business?
[00:18:37] Steven: We treat the team as a full ecosystem, just like the farm, recognizing Each individual's genius, right?
[00:18:46] Each individual is bringing something that I don't have or Chris doesn't have, or it just complements the team. Like, for example, a couple of colleagues work just during the summer [00:19:00] and they're teachers during the, the, you know, the school year. And so they might bring their, uh, students here to the farm as a little class education.
[00:19:14] Moment. And so we host that and that's a real beautiful connection with the broader community. And it's, it's something that we value from. The person that, that works here, you know, their unique, uh, connections to the community and, and what they bring.
[00:19:33] Richard: Can you think of an example of a time where this ecosystem approach allowed somebody to grow into a bigger, different role than the one that their original job description said they would do?
[00:19:44] Steven: Yes. Yeah, I think. Everyone has hidden talents that might not be visible right away, and so never putting anyone in a box and limiting them [00:20:00] is, is something that we pay attention to. And just as we spoke about, this is a very diverse job. And it's a small business, so everyone does a lot of diverse work in, you know, while they're here.
[00:20:17] And so we've found, and, and they found two, uh, beautiful skills that they didn't know that they liked, that they, they kind of blossomed in and loved when given the opportunity, uh, to do that. So, um, we have some exceptional. Hospitality ambassadors that are here and are great with customers and really enjoy curating a beautiful experience and are amazing in the garden, you know, in their design and the input that they have there and that is an outlet for them.
[00:20:56] So it allows them to utilize their whole being. [00:21:00] Uh, rather than just kind of one skill set,
[00:21:03] Richard: um, another angle on this that comes to mind. And tell me if you can think of an example that relates to it, or if I'm totally off base, but I know when you're trying to help your grapes be healthy in an ecosystem focused way, sometimes you're working directly on the grapes, like on the vine, you're pruning or something, but a lot of times you're working on the system around them.
[00:21:24] With growing the cover crops or, um, working to have more pollinators in the, the vines or, or whatever. Um, how do you see that dynamic show up with the people where sometimes you're helping somebody thrive, not by doing something directly with that person, like training. But by creating an environment around them where they're more likely to thrive or people are more likely to collaborate, what comes to mind when I talk about that?
[00:21:49] Steven: Excellent. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent question. I, I, I speak a lot about creating the context, uh, for healthy yeasts [00:22:00] and the vineyard. Um, that we rely on and then creating a context in the cellar that's conducive to fine wine, that's cleanliness. And so it's kind of, like you said, it's, it's, it's an indirect or a background thing.
[00:22:15] And so in terms of our hospitality team and management team, it's really the culture that we really put a lot of intention and attention on. And making sure that. Everyone is, uh, is included in kind of bringing together our shared values. It's really important to be clear about your values. When I did that, I found that it was Wisdom, truth, uh, beauty.
[00:22:52] Analemma is still producing fine wine, but it's in the context of a broader goal of [00:23:00] increasing the soil quality, taking care of our ecosystems, not polluting the commons, you know, whether it's the rivers, creeks that are flowing nearby, or the air. Uh, the air ecosystem through our sprays or whatever, um, and being resource wise and just in terms of water and electricity and, and everything that we're doing in packaging and such.
[00:23:27] So, um. We're, we're seeing ourselves in the context of a whole. And I would think that that's actually another good example of wisdom is to, to realize what your part is in a larger whole, and, and then step back and see. Uh, how you might be disrupting that whole or neglecting part of it and trying to broaden the aperture of your own lens.
[00:23:55] Richard: And what do you trade off by doing this as you optimize for the whole, instead of narrowly [00:24:00] optimizing for, I'm going to make a a hundred point line and everything else be damned. Uh, what, what are you giving up as you take that approach?
[00:24:10] Steven: Ease, you give up ease, right? It's harder. It's much harder. And, and, um, I, I, I'm a strong believer that the best wines will be made from the most coherent and wise approach to growing the grates and making the wine.
[00:24:30] And, and so because our wines are, um, really pure, there's no additives and we, we ferment with the yeast that we, that we grow in the vineyard or that's there in the vineyard. And so, you know, it's the paradox of having something so simple, but yet so profound. So there's nothing added, there's nothing taken away.
[00:24:55] And yet it includes everything. It includes our whole [00:25:00] ecosystem, uh, all the care and attention and the hours that we put in out there, uh, the fastidiousness of our cleaning, the thoughtfulness. And, and so it really. If we focus on every process and step along the way, then that product at the end will be spectacular.
[00:25:21] And, um, so I think that that, that's one thing that I've learned is to kind of not, uh, jump too far ahead and focus on the end product right away, but ensure that you're doing the best you can at every step. Um, to, yeah, to maintain your values and, um, yeah, just do the best you can.
[00:25:44] Richard: Yeah. I guess what I'm hearing in that is living more and more into that shared purpose and some of those early values and letting it affect more and more things.
[00:25:53] What's been particularly challenging about doing that? Cause so far it sounds like things are just going great. You're [00:26:00] making great wine every year. It's getting better and better and more aligned with purpose. What has been challenging along the way?
[00:26:07] Steven: Well, uh, in 2020, we lost all of our wines due to wildfire, uh, smoke impact.
[00:26:17] And so the changing climate is a real factor in the sense of, um, the impact that it's had on us, like I, I'm highly attuned to the seasons. And I have all the dates of when we picked what grapes, you know, and what ripeness they were. And so it's really clear for us to see kind of a linear pattern moving towards a warmer, hotter, drier ecosystem.
[00:26:47] And that that's been more challenging and difficult, uh, for sure. And, uh, farming. is never straightforward or the same each [00:27:00] year. So we do have challenges, um, uh, well with animals. Uh, you know, they're, they're unpredictable and demand care. Uh, and, and, and learning. Um, yeah, not. Every wine that we've grown has made it into bottle.
[00:27:22] You know, we've lost some along the way, uh, just to unforeseen circumstances and that, that never feels good. Uh, and then I can see, I can see where, um, even though we're down in visitation a little bit this year, our customers are more endeared and more, uh, supportive than ever. So. As I think, as we continue to do the right thing, you know, just given the circumstances, [00:28:00] uh, that our customers will recognize that and appreciate it.
[00:28:06] When you're starting a winery, uh, it's important to gain, you know, good recognition and have a good reputation for quality. And we, we make wines in a particular way. And the, the dominance of reviewers in the industry are generally. I'd say kind of biased towards, uh, a riper expression of wines or, you know, with a fair amount of New Oak influence and yeah, higher alcohols and real rich.
[00:28:46] And those, those aren't the wines that we. that we grow and, and like to produce. And part of it is because the region we're in is a cooler region, but a lot of it is just our choice on when to [00:29:00] pick and, um, not to use all those resources. So like the barrels behind me, uh, are expensive and the wood will last several decades in the cellar.
[00:29:14] But if you're making a wine that has to have that flavor of new oak, you have to buy a significant amount of barrels each year to be able to make that style of wine. And I'm just, I'm not willing to do that. And, and so we, you know, we weren't able to, we haven't been able to, uh, you know, jump on that, the reviewer, uh, bandwagon of creating.
[00:29:45] You know, more, I'd say more kind of generic wines or that are certain stylistic that the majority of people would love, um, And we're, we're making wines that are more of a sense of [00:30:00] place and a sense of identity here.
[00:30:02] Richard: Yeah. So have there been points where it's, it's tempting to maybe let it go a little rifer, get it in a new barrel and submit it for the review, even though that's not what you do?
[00:30:13] Steven: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Cause uh, why making is Quite vulnerable, right? I mean, you put years of effort into this product and you literally serve it to someone in a glass for them to critique it right there, right there in front of you and all that, uh, hard work and effort can be for not if, if someone isn't pleased by it.
[00:30:37] So it, it really takes a strong commitment to, for, uh, What we do and how we do it and, and to stand behind the wines we make, um, yeah, even if they're, uh, and I want to be careful, like we, we make good wines and a lot of the critics love them. So, uh, uh, but we're not making them for the critics [00:31:00] and, you know, another example might be, um, the wine industry can be pretty capital intensive and, uh, also difficult with cashflow.
[00:31:10] And so a lot of. Wine producers will rush their wines to market to keep the cash flow going and we, um, we're proud to, to give the wine, our wines, the time they need to develop properly and barrel and then release them when they're ready. So that, that's, that's a good example of holding to our values and not, you know, um, getting pushed around by the market a little bit.
[00:31:42] Um, If you think about it, it's really just that first cycle that you need to, uh, hold out on, because if, if you release the wines later, then, then you're on that cycle, um, And it starts working for you. [00:32:00] So
[00:32:00] Richard: what's an example of misalignment on your team and how did you navigate that to to resolve it and come back into alignment?
[00:32:12] Steven: I'd say misalignment on our team has happened where we. You know, we allow too much autonomy and individuality to occur. So, you know that life is created through, through duality and, and, and, and so you, or we mentioned the parts and the holes before. Um, some, uh, in the past, some team members have, Wanted to, to kind of do their own thing adjacent to their work with us, or they wanted more autonomy and reduce their [00:33:00] time or go back to studying or, you know, start their own business and they kind of have one foot in two places.
[00:33:09] And while we are fully supportive of every individual, we have to ensure that all colleagues are focused on the whole of the business, and that's Anilima. And so we've tried to be kind of lenient and say, yeah, all right. Yeah, cool. That's cool. Yeah. You want to start that? Sure. Here, go, go try that. Let's see if it works.
[00:33:32] And it's never ended up working that well because when, when the attention is shifted away from analemma as, as the priority or the, um, yeah, I'd say the priority, then, then that's where there's misalignment. So it's balancing that. Individuality and autonomy with all your colleagues and also devotion to work because [00:34:00] we're not, we're never trying to burn anyone out or overwork anyone, but it is easy to see when the priority has shifted.
[00:34:11] Richard: Do you ever see that happen, um, within the context of Analemma where? We're, we're working on the same thing, but we're thinking about it differently. Oh, sure. And there's some points where we would go in different directions and make different decisions. And how do you navigate that? Yeah.
[00:34:28] Steven: Yeah. Sure. Yeah. So I have, I have several partners in the business.
[00:34:33] The, the primary one is Chris, my business partner, and she and I work really well together and also have different approaches to things. So we have navigated that a lot by. Um, uh, kind of delegating responsibility or areas of focus. And so she, she's [00:35:00] cured. She does really great at curating a guest experience and sales and with everybody on the front of the house.
[00:35:06] And then I'm a little bit more effective in the field and in the cellar creating the wines. So that's a natural distribution, but we listen to each other, uh, quite a lot. And. Um, we try to maintain the 80 20 rule, you know, okay, this is 80 percent my domain, but I'm happy to listen if you've got input and you feel really strongly, I'm all ears and let's talk about that.
[00:35:32] And then we're also both really open to influence. So if, um, if that are choices and ideas and decisions. Aren't working for, for the business as a whole, then the other one will step in and say, Hey, you know, I, I just, I want to make sure you see this, this is what I'm seeing and we can recalibrate together.
[00:35:57] Richard: What's a time where Chris influenced you [00:36:00] to change something you were doing?
[00:36:01] Steven: I get really. I get really creative with the wines and in the cellar. And so I could easily produce like 30 different wines every year because they all have their unique characteristic, but she's like, wait a minute, wait a minute.
[00:36:17] No, we don't need, you know, every year you're losing people with your creativity. I'm like, okay, all right. I got to bring it back. And, and so that, that, that's a good example of how that can happen. Yeah, that's nice.
[00:36:31] Richard: Uh, you've, uh, innovated on both the vineyard end of the operation with some of the, uh, regenerative and biodynamic practices and on the hospitality side with things like the, the field tastings that you described earlier.
[00:36:47] How do you approach innovation at Enel EMA coming up with, with new ideas? How does that happen and how do you find the good ones?
[00:36:55] Steven: Yeah, I would say we, we lean towards innovation. [00:37:00] Um, rather than tradition. So, I can give you a tangible example with that. We're very innovative in the types of grapes that we're growing, uh, meaning, you know, I've planted some varietals that have never been planted in the U.
[00:37:18] S. before and never been bottled. So that's very innovative, but we grow them and we vinify them in a really tradition or traditional manner. So I like the concept of transcending and including, and we're including what has worked, what is. You know, proven that is best for wines and to minimize faults and to, to bring a wine to market successfully, but I also value expanding the conversation around wine to include other varietals [00:38:00] besides the standard Cabernet, Chardonnay, Pinot Noir, and Merlot.
[00:38:06] So we, I think we have the best of both worlds there. Uh, we're in a very traditional profession of agriculture, but we're innovating with the regenerative part of it. So I can look back and see where agriculture is broken, you know, like we're demineralizing the soil where the soil is. running off, you know, or is blowing away or, you know, the nutrient quality isn't there for what we are growing.
[00:38:38] And the, the confined animal feed operations are not healthy. You know, that, that, so. Even though animals have been integrated into agriculture for a very long time, that, that evolution towards a mass conglomeration [00:39:00] of animals isn't healthy. We have to go away from that. We tried it for a little while and let's, let's move away.
[00:39:05] So just seeing where. Innovation can be for the greater good for everybody. So if we need to innovate in our, in our tasting experience, for example, it's tradition to, to people to come and have a wine tasting experience. It's innovative to take them in the field and get them to see the farm, you know, if that's allowed.
[00:39:28] So, uh, yeah, I hope those are some examples of how, how we approach innovation.
[00:39:34] Richard: Yeah, it sounds like the intersection between, uh, a tradition that you're inheriting and your values and then saying, how can we build on what we've inherited to express our values better?
[00:39:48] Steven: Yeah, a lot of values can be in, in conflict.
[00:39:51] Um, You know, I'm thinking of some old farmers that are like, well, I value getting things done or they, they value [00:40:00] productivity or they value efficiency, but the, the world is also evolving in a way that, that has values. In it, you know, I mean, I think the grammar of the universe has values and, and so we, our values need to be aligned with the greater sense of values, you know, the greater world of values or what, what's best for the greatest good.
[00:40:26] So, um, you, an individual might. Have some strong values, but they might not be aligned with a greater way of being. And so I think one needs to take an honest look at that and, and balance, yeah, a greater good in, in your sense of innovation.
[00:40:51] Richard: What are some resources that particularly influenced your approach to leadership in business?
[00:40:58] Steven: Many, um, [00:41:00] I I've taken several leadership courses, uh, One that's coming to mind is, uh, learning as leadership, um, was really good and I've studied a lot with facilitators, uh, that work with groups and, and leadership in that context, um, that is using self as instrument.
[00:41:29] So, you know, Uh, again, kind of being attuned to yourself and sensing what's right, uh, where there's tension, where there's misalignment and incongruence, and just being highly attuned to oneself and trusting it. Um,
[00:41:51] Richard: where would someone go to learn more about that, that, that phrase self as instrument is evocative, but it's new to me.
[00:41:57] Steven: Yeah, there, there are wonderful programs, [00:42:00] uh, under, uh, the, the real life program and those are based out of Salt Lake city, Utah. And so I highly recommend those. And um, just a lot of, a lot of reading, uh, as well, uh, ego free leadership book, uh, sticks out in my mind.
[00:42:19] Richard: You mentioned reinventing organizations to me.
[00:42:21] Yeah. Yeah, sure. We were talking at Piscinas and people go in all kinds of directions with that one. I'm curious how that influenced what you do.
[00:42:31] Steven: Yeah. Frederick Lallou was the author and I really appreciated that for, um, just the paradoxical nature that can, that can happen. Um, you know, by trying something that isn't.
[00:42:49] Normally thought of as successful just with, you know, the, the hierarchy in business and leadership [00:43:00] can be effective, but. Uh, what doesn't need to be in such a hierarchy is the power, like power is dynamic. It can move around. And so sometimes the CEO or, or, you know, the person up on the hierarchy needs to delegate that power, let's say to someone else, um, to, to empower them to, to make a change.
[00:43:27] So it doesn't all need to come down from the top. I'm not a big fan of flattening everything. Uh, And the way I see hierarchy is more, not necessarily a sense of power, but it's a, a broadening of perspective. So the person that sees the most perspectives and can hold the most complexity is generally the one that should be a leader in, in the situation.
[00:43:58] Uh, [00:44:00] and, and also emphasizing finding the right answer and not my answer, you know, uh, and I always say that to our team, like, okay, look, I, I'm not just telling you to do it because I want it. Done this way. If you, if you see it, that it could be done better or, or differently. I'm, I'm all, I'm, I'm open to that.
[00:44:23] Just let me know why. And just, yeah, just trying to keep in mind that we're looking for the best answer and not, uh, not my answer all the time.
[00:44:32] Richard: That's that ego free approach to it. It sounds like. Yeah.
[00:44:35] Steven: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And just try and not to identify with your role as a leader. Um, when, when it's not helpful.
[00:44:44] And that's kind of the majority of the time, you know, I really kind of think through the, through the lens of, all right, like what, what, what What's best for Analemma or in the farming side, you know, what, what impact is this going to have on the orchards or [00:45:00] the vineyards or the soil and, um, and kind of go from there and not be dogmatic about it?
[00:45:08] You know, a tangible example from that is there's a lot of conversation in the farming world about no till. or tilling, you know, and, and generally you find people on either or camp, but it's not, you know, we till a little bit, but it's in service of life. Uh, so we only till like one time and our, our process of tilling is actually, Not disturbing the micro, micro rize eye or micro rhizome area as much as it is just opening specific areas of the soil to let water infiltrate just ahead of the winter rains.
[00:45:52] Uh, so it's. done at a specific time with a strong intention and purpose, [00:46:00] it can be the right thing to do. So, uh, again, wisdom is rarely dogmatic. It's always moving all over the place. And so always trying to think, um, And include as many perspectives as they can. That's great.
[00:46:15] Richard: Well, this was great. I really enjoyed getting a glimpse into leadership, innovation, running an organization in a totally different context from where most of our clients live.
[00:46:28] How can people learn more about Enel EMA and find your wine so they can try them?
[00:46:32] Steven: Great. Yeah. It's, uh, yeah, we have a robust website, um, and folks can order online if they'd like some wine for the holidays or whenever. Really, if they want to support regenerative farming and have truly unique, uh, beautiful wines that are made for your meals at home and with friends, they can find us at AnnaLemmaWines.
[00:46:55] com. And if anyone is in the Pacific Northwest [00:47:00] and passes through the Columbia Gorge, uh, I really hope you'll call and reach out and sign up for a visit, make an appointment for a visit with us and, uh, maybe we'll have time to do a farm tour or, um, yeah, explore the cellar and yeah, kind of see what novelty comes up.
[00:47:19] Richard: Yeah, I need to get up there myself. My wife and I were just talking about it. It sounds amazing. Uh, last thing as we wrap up, um, what is, uh, a message you would want to leave with the community? Our listeners who are in, uh, organizational leadership, product management, product development in various fields.
[00:47:39] And what message do you want to leave with them as we wrap up?
[00:47:42] Steven: Well, I, I encourage everyone to in this regenerative space or humanizing the workplace space and, and leadership is as like self as instrument and really blurring the lines between professional development and [00:48:00] personal development. You know, with, with all that in mind, anyone that is, that feels alive with all that really doubled down on your energy and input to what you're doing.
[00:48:12] I think the time is really potentiated right now with so much change and, uh, not quite knowing where things are going and uncertainty. Uh, I really do feel that it's grounding both for oneself. As a leader and then for your team in the workplace, uh, and like we've mentioned in this podcast, you know, look at your values and really be clear about, um, and.
[00:48:47] And just actualize your commitment to them, uh, as, as much as he can.
[00:48:53] Richard: Great. Thanks, Steven. It's been a pleasure talking with you and I'm looking forward to sharing this with our audience.
[00:48:58] Steven: Great. Yeah. Thank you, Richard. [00:49:00] Yeah. It's been a pleasure talking to you too. And thanks for having me on. I really enjoyed it.
[00:49:03] Richard: Thank you. And everybody who's listening, thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next time on the Humanizing Work Show.
